86. Season 2 Wrap Up
It’s been a whirlwind of a season!
In this special wrap-up episode, Bethany and Brandon look back on the last ten weeks of The Operations Room — the highlights, lessons, and chaos that shaped Season 2 — and share a sneak peek of what’s coming in Season 3.
We reflect on:
- What it really feels like to step into a CEO role (and why it’s lonelier than expected).
- The intensity of leading through change — and learning to switch off when the buck stops with you.
- The balance between growth, leadership, and staying human.
- The power (and pain) of performance reviews done right.
- Why our next season will dive deep into AI, leadership, and rethinking operational strategy.
Plus, we reveal our guest line-up for Season 3 — including returning favourites like Keith Wallington and Cameron Herold, and new voices exploring AI, sales, and the future of strategy.
Love The Operations Room? Please support us by rating and reviewing it here.
You can also share your guest suggestions — one slot left for next season!
Summary
00:00 – Welcome and season recap
02:00 – Bethany’s first 90 days as CEO
07:30 – The reality of responsibility and loneliness at the top
11:50 – Brandon’s reflections on scaling a high-growth team
15:40 – Lessons from performance and salary reviews
20:00 – What’s coming next: AI, leadership, and puzzles vs OKRs
26:00 – Behind the scenes: planning the next season
28:00 – Our Substack
To learn more about Beth and Brandon or to find out about sponsorship opportunities click here.
This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
Podcorn - https://podcorn.com/privacy
Transcript
Hello and welcome to another episode
Speaker:of the Operations Room.
Speaker:This is a wrap up episode for
Speaker:our season that we just finished
Speaker:which is fantastic.
Speaker:I'm very excited.
Speaker:Bethany is here.
Speaker:No, I'm missing.
Speaker:You're missing.
Speaker:I'm missing, it's just you all by
Speaker:yourself today, Brandon.
Speaker:So, 10 episodes over
Speaker:the course of September, October,
Speaker:November, we are now finished
Speaker:for this year.
Speaker:We will be coming back in January
Speaker:of next year, which is phenomenal
Speaker:for Season 3.
Speaker:Very excited by that.
Speaker:So, before we get into next year
Speaker:maybe just a bit of a reflection in
Speaker:terms of I guess ending this year,
Speaker:where Bethany is at, where Brandon
Speaker:is at and maybe a bit of a
Speaker:commentary on some of our episodes
Speaker:of Note.
Speaker:That you're really going to test us
Speaker:if we get to episodes of notes.
Speaker:Our memory test of the last 10
Speaker:weeks has just been pretty intense.
Speaker:I can barely recall what has
Speaker:happened in terms of our episodes.
Speaker:And I can barely recall what's
Speaker:happened in terms of our lives, let
Speaker:alone our episodes.
Speaker:Ten weeks ago, I had just started in
Speaker:my new role at
Speaker:Matomic.
Speaker:It was hilarious, by the way,
Speaker:because in our episodes, they're
Speaker:totally out of sequence, so as I
Speaker:listen to them, it's like, Bethany's
Speaker:in week one, you know, then she's in
Speaker:weeks nine, then she is in week
Speaker:three, then she hasn't even started
Speaker:yet, it's all over the map.
Speaker:Yeah, we have to do better planning
Speaker:for next time.
Speaker:So I guess I could have some
Speaker:reflections on the change from
Speaker:COO to CEO, because
Speaker:it has just been the most intense
Speaker:experience of my life.
Speaker:And I think I was naive in
Speaker:that. Like I knew it was a new role.
Speaker:And i know CEO takes
Speaker:a lot of responsibility,
Speaker:but I also thought
Speaker:25 person company,
Speaker:tech, money in the bank.
Speaker:How hard can it be?
Speaker:And I am really, really
Speaker:happy that as a 25 person
Speaker:company, because learning all
Speaker:of the CEO skills is
Speaker:a lot easier without having to learn
Speaker:or deal with, I wouldn't say,
Speaker:I guess, I've had larger companies
Speaker:that I've led, so it's not
Speaker:necessarily the skills of leading a
Speaker:larger team.
Speaker:It's just all of it.
Speaker:And to be ultimately responsible
Speaker:for everything.
Speaker:I'm just going to say on top of
Speaker:that, you're learning a brand new
Speaker:space as well, because whenever you
Speaker:join companies, whether it's CEO or
Speaker:CEO or whatever, you have to figure
Speaker:out what's going on because you're
Speaker:responsible for the growth of the
Speaker:company ultimately and being able to
Speaker:understand the market, the dynamics,
Speaker:prospects, the customers, their pain
Speaker:points, the challenges, yada
Speaker:yada, there's just a ton of stuff to
Speaker:to stand within a short time frame.
Speaker:There is.
Speaker:And then on top of that,
Speaker:like having the buck stop with me,
Speaker:horrible phrase, but you know,
Speaker:that's what it feels like.
Speaker:And I alternate between
Speaker:worrying about the office
Speaker:layout and getting plants
Speaker:and having storage and
Speaker:meeting with future investors
Speaker:and top customers
Speaker:and figuring out our five-year plan
Speaker:all in one day.
Speaker:So then, all right, fine.
Speaker:So then the reflections, the
Speaker:observations, what has occurred to
Speaker:you, I guess, in the past 10 weeks?
Speaker:That it's way more intense,
Speaker:like I've been through fundraising
Speaker:rounds, I've been through
Speaker:acquisitions, I have been through
Speaker:restructures, I been through
Speaker:strategy, and somehow
Speaker:it's just different when you're not
Speaker:in charge of it all.
Speaker:I can't switch off.
Speaker:There's always something and I'm
Speaker:always thinking, it's
Speaker:a different level of intensity, I
Speaker:think because of the responsibility.
Speaker:When you say you can't switch off,
Speaker:do you mean on the evenings, on
Speaker:the weekends, that type of thing as
Speaker:well, or?
Speaker:My brain is just always working.
Speaker:It's not like I'm stressed.
Speaker:It's just always thinking
Speaker:about it in an all-consuming
Speaker:way that I don't think I've
Speaker:ever had as a COO
Speaker:or any other exec role.
Speaker:So that part is a
Speaker:surprise. And maybe it's because I'm
Speaker:learning a lot, but I don't think it
Speaker:is. I think it's just that level of
Speaker:responsibility and knowing that it
Speaker:all stops with you or
Speaker:is all down to you.
Speaker:And then the
Speaker:loneliness piece, I guess I
Speaker:was expecting it, but it's real.
Speaker:Where you can't share
Speaker:your opinions with everybody
Speaker:or anybody.
Speaker:There's a lot of needing to figure
Speaker:things out.
Speaker:And then also just, there's
Speaker:nothing where I can just be friends
Speaker:with somebody because there's always
Speaker:that dynamic. It doesn't mean that
Speaker:we're not friendly, but
Speaker:the offsite and knowing
Speaker:that everybody's gonna have more fun
Speaker:when I leave, and they did,
Speaker:and being okay with that.
Speaker:So, on the loneliness front,
Speaker:it's different for you because
Speaker:you're not a young founder where
Speaker:you maybe don't have a network
Speaker:around you, you know, you might have
Speaker:a couple of people outside the
Speaker:company perhaps, but somebody like
Speaker:yourself, you have a
Speaker:well-established network of really
Speaker:interesting people that are very
Speaker:wise around you.
Speaker:So that loneliness part of it,
Speaker:do you not have more of a broad,
Speaker:strong network to reach out to when
Speaker:you do have concerns around what's
Speaker:happening or how to think about
Speaker:things or...
Speaker:Oh, I definitely do.
Speaker:And it's growing, because
Speaker:that network is introducing me to
Speaker:new people as I hit different
Speaker:problems or trying to learn things.
Speaker:Even though I can go and talk to
Speaker:people, and I
Speaker:have my husband to speak with,
Speaker:there's still a level of loneliness
Speaker:at work.
Speaker:It's just different, because even as
Speaker:a COO, maybe it's just so
Speaker:you can get stuck into the politics
Speaker:or the ideas and
Speaker:you all have a common enemy of
Speaker:the CEO to talk about and bond
Speaker:over at one point or another.
Speaker:But when you are everybody's
Speaker:common enemy, like there's
Speaker:nobody to go to, you know?
Speaker:And also like, I know that that's in
Speaker:some ways part of the role is for
Speaker:everybody to think they can do my
Speaker:job better and just need to get on
Speaker:with it. I'm a unifying
Speaker:figure for everyone else in the
Speaker:company except for me.
Speaker:Fair enough, yeah, the buck stops
Speaker:with you and the responsibility
Speaker:ultimately comes up, it rolls up to
Speaker:a single person.
Speaker:Whereas even as a C-suite person
Speaker:being a CEO, you still have your
Speaker:peer-level network sitting alongside
Speaker:of you. So there's two, three, four
Speaker:other people that you're carrying
Speaker:the load with and can talk about
Speaker:things.
Speaker:Yeah, those are like the big
Speaker:pictures and then the biggest
Speaker:surprise that's stupid,
Speaker:but is annoying and a big surprise
Speaker:is the sheer volume of
Speaker:email.
Speaker:Okay, email.
Speaker:Yeah, I know.
Speaker:I was like, who does email?
Speaker:Internally, we're exclusively
Speaker:Slack.
Speaker:In previous roles, I've had some
Speaker:customer dealings or some this, some
Speaker:that, and some amount of external
Speaker:email, but nothing uncontrollable.
Speaker:I don't even know what I get, but I
Speaker:just get constant email.
Speaker:I get constant stupid SDR email,
Speaker:but I also just get emails I have to
Speaker:reply to.
Speaker:I find this really draining.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker:So you mean with prospects,
Speaker:customers, suppliers, you
Speaker:mean? Because mostly speaking, any
Speaker:kind of trash email that comes
Speaker:through, because for sure, as a CEO
Speaker:or a C-suite person, you get a ton
Speaker:of randomized, outbound,
Speaker:and obviously, you ignore the
Speaker:vast, vast, majority.
Speaker:So are you saying that there's more
Speaker:of that? Or is there more of
Speaker:just actual interactions whereby you
Speaker:actually, to your point, need to
Speaker:respond because it's a supplier or
Speaker:whatever?
Speaker:Yeah, it's that stuff.
Speaker:So there's some amount
Speaker:of customer prospect, and then
Speaker:I had a huge amount of inbound
Speaker:investor interest just because it's
Speaker:a CEO change.
Speaker:And so I'm going to talk to all of
Speaker:them to start building relationships
Speaker:for the future.
Speaker:And then there's follow up emails,
Speaker:and then there is bankers
Speaker:and lawyers and accountant.
Speaker:And Gartner produces a
Speaker:lot of email.
Speaker:I feel like I'm always responding to
Speaker:something that Gartener's sending
Speaker:me. And we had a contract
Speaker:dispute with a supplier this week,
Speaker:so that took up a huge amount of my
Speaker:time.
Speaker:I'm very surprised by this.
Speaker:Yeah, investor relations being
Speaker:introduced to a lot of people,
Speaker:a lot people who would like to
Speaker:advise and consult me, to your
Speaker:point of like, aren't there lots of
Speaker:people who you can turn to?
Speaker:And I'm like, oh, there are.
Speaker:And those people want to turn.
Speaker:To other people who can advise me
Speaker:for a fee or not for a fee.
Speaker:So just like a lot of meeting people
Speaker:and being chased.
Speaker:Any celebratory elements to
Speaker:the last 10 weeks in terms of maybe
Speaker:on the upside, on the positive side,
Speaker:anything that surprised you in a
Speaker:good way.
Speaker:Don't know if it surprised me, but
Speaker:it's just nice to know that I'm
Speaker:still a very fast learner.
Speaker:I have picked up a tremendous
Speaker:amount in three months
Speaker:and I can talk
Speaker:like I know what I'm talking about.
Speaker:I can sound like I'm talking about,
Speaker:I have learned a lot in
Speaker:a lot of acronyms.
Speaker:And then also on top of that, I've
Speaker:had a real focus the last couple of
Speaker:weeks on the engineering side.
Speaker:And so I've learned a lot about
Speaker:technology, all kinds of
Speaker:databases.
Speaker:Names of all kinds of stuff,
Speaker:way more detail about how AWS works
Speaker:than I ever understood previously.
Speaker:Yeah, because you're in a real B2B
Speaker:technology-oriented company.
Speaker:So the level of product end
Speaker:discussion, I suspect,
Speaker:proportionally is quite high.
Speaker:It is and it's really interesting to
Speaker:just get into that next layer of
Speaker:detail that for whatever reason i've
Speaker:never had to deal with her be
Speaker:exposed to in the past i could
Speaker:draw you the architecture of our
Speaker:software.
Speaker:Please don't, no architecture
Speaker:of security software.
Speaker:That's the, that sounds like the
Speaker:least interesting thing we can do on
Speaker:a Friday at 5 p.m.
Speaker:Well, maybe just a bit of
Speaker:architecture. That's one of my
Speaker:favorite portmanteaus.
Speaker:I had a couple really tough
Speaker:people weeks that were
Speaker:wildly intense, and
Speaker:I had to spend a lot of time
Speaker:processing feelings and
Speaker:going home at night and letting all
Speaker:the anxiety drip out of
Speaker:my body.
Speaker:Even in that period, I just had to
Speaker:remind myself that I'd signed up for
Speaker:this and this is what I wanted,
Speaker:and this too shall pass, and it
Speaker:did.
Speaker:I'm still really I hope you're
Speaker:enjoying it. Um, I'm delighted
Speaker:I had this opportunity to come
Speaker:across and took it and
Speaker:I love being a CEO other than those
Speaker:couple of weeks. I was like,
Speaker:what, why am I doing this?
Speaker:This, there's no point to this, but
Speaker:the good definitely outweighs the
Speaker:bad.
Speaker:I think whenever you have people
Speaker:challenges, it is so draining
Speaker:when they're significant and they
Speaker:matter, and there's personalities
Speaker:involved and careers involved,
Speaker:it can all get very burdensome.
Speaker:And I suspect if you're trying to
Speaker:like, I mean, you did a lot of
Speaker:things all at the same time, you're
Speaker:ramping into a fresh domain, you are
Speaker:freshly into the CEO role.
Speaker:And there's a lot of expectations
Speaker:behind it plus a lot people
Speaker:challenges to sort through from the
Speaker:outside to kind of put the company
Speaker:in the right trajectory plus you're
Speaker:already i see your kind of like the
Speaker:all in one solution ten
Speaker:week three month program.
Speaker:I'm not quite there yet.
Speaker:It'll be three months next week.
Speaker:Well, there we go, 90 days as CEO
Speaker:with Bethany Airs.
Speaker:I'll get ChatGPT to write it for me,
Speaker:just with a little bit of whisper
Speaker:flow, talk it through and I can
Speaker:do the rest.
Speaker:I have created an agent
Speaker:or a project that sounds like me,
Speaker:like I've given it enough of my
Speaker:writing and I've told it when it's
Speaker:bad for long enough that
Speaker:I now think that I
Speaker:can probably approximate me
Speaker:where you might not realize whether
Speaker:or not it's me.
Speaker:Well, you know, it's interesting, if
Speaker:you go on to our custom GPT
Speaker:for the operations room, it's
Speaker:hilarious if you put in, what is
Speaker:Bethany's interest in life and what
Speaker:it comes up with?
Speaker:It's, it cracks me up.
Speaker:Everything would be the shorthand
Speaker:of it.
Speaker:Yeah, you should try it.
Speaker:It's hilarious.
Speaker:So that's been me in the last 10
Speaker:weeks.
Speaker:Brandon, I don't know how much you
Speaker:can talk about what's happened to
Speaker:you in the the last ten weeks or
Speaker:what your life's been like.
Speaker:I know I have a limited
Speaker:ability to speak about what is
Speaker:going on right now because we have
Speaker:ton of stuff happening, so I feel
Speaker:like. When you join a scale
Speaker:up company that is venture
Speaker:backed, that is going from one stage
Speaker:to the next possibly, there
Speaker:is just a tremendous amount that
Speaker:has yet done to get the company in
Speaker:the best possible position to
Speaker:succeed. It is all about growth.
Speaker:It's all about the next step.
Speaker:It's about taking the assets and
Speaker:whatever you've been handed and
Speaker:making that transformative both for
Speaker:the company itself, for the
Speaker:investors, for the customers,
Speaker:and doing whatever is required to
Speaker:make that happen.
Speaker:So I feel like the The scale
Speaker:and velocity of the
Speaker:sheer workload is
Speaker:enormous.
Speaker:So the team that I'm working with,
Speaker:a phenomenal set of people, their
Speaker:ability to roll through
Speaker:stuff rapidly and meaningfully
Speaker:at quality levels is
Speaker:off the charts.
Speaker:Yeah, I feel very impressed right
Speaker:now. I'll just give you one example
Speaker:that I can share, I suppose, which
Speaker:is we brought in people
Speaker:ops contractor based on a
Speaker:referral.
Speaker:And she has done phenomenal work for
Speaker:the company. We had this question
Speaker:of, you know, should we do
Speaker:performance and seller reviews, you
Speaker:know wholesale bookend
Speaker:this year, because that's obviously
Speaker:desirable to do kind of ahead of,
Speaker:you know kind of growing the company
Speaker:next year.
Speaker:And you know we literally
Speaker:had the thought, the idea.
Speaker:We're like, yes, we should do this.
Speaker:Can we actually do this within
Speaker:whatever timeframe?
Speaker:And initially we're like ah, that
Speaker:seems like overly ambitious given
Speaker:all the other stuff that we're
Speaker:trying to accomplish.
Speaker:And then we were like, all right,
Speaker:no, we're going to do it.
Speaker:And she is just rolled
Speaker:through it.
Speaker:So salary benchmarking,
Speaker:you know, phenomenal piece of work,
Speaker:you know, the whole performance
Speaker:review set up and structure enabling
Speaker:that to occur.
Speaker:Now we're like in the midst of right
Speaker:now doing calibration sessions, the
Speaker:hole bit, but the timeframe by which
Speaker:we, from which we started to like
Speaker:getting it done.
Speaker:The tightest I've ever seen
Speaker:basically so I just feel like the
Speaker:and also the quality of the work
Speaker:itself I feel very confident
Speaker:because I think sometimes you go
Speaker:through these exercises too quickly
Speaker:or you don't think about it
Speaker:rigorously enough.
Speaker:It goes off the rails and suddenly
Speaker:you're kind of like setting yourself
Speaker:up for huge problems because people
Speaker:are pissed off around, I don't know,
Speaker:the process itself or the
Speaker:compensation part of it didn't make
Speaker:sense for some reason or people are
Speaker:upset or whatever.
Speaker:But I feel like we're in a position
Speaker:where it feels pretty watertight
Speaker:just in terms of what we're doing.
Speaker:So and even though this is just one
Speaker:example, but I do feel like
Speaker:this is probably, I know the
Speaker:most significant amount
Speaker:of.
Speaker:Work that I've done on projects
Speaker:that are like have been good of high
Speaker:quality right across the board, and
Speaker:also people that have been brought
Speaker:in that have done extraordinary work
Speaker:as well. So I feel like everything
Speaker:is kind of combusting in a way that
Speaker:is very useful and helpful
Speaker:for myself, but also for the
Speaker:company. So I think there's just
Speaker:been a solid piece of work.
Speaker:And as I'm talking about performance
Speaker:reviews, I have to give myself a
Speaker:self review shortly.
Speaker:So, I will give myself 12
Speaker:out of 10.
Speaker:Oh, 12.
Speaker:Oh, I thought we were bold at 10 out
Speaker:of 10. Go you, Brandon.
Speaker:Gotta crank the dial up.
Speaker:Interestingly, when I worked at
Speaker:SwiftKey ages ago, we had a forum
Speaker:to fill in for performance reviews
Speaker:and one of the individuals that
Speaker:reported in to me, he was fabulous
Speaker:and we had like the score card of
Speaker:out of five or something like that.
Speaker:And because I was a bit of a jackass
Speaker:back then, I sent him at six,
Speaker:right? Which obviously you can't do.
Speaker:So I submitted it as a six and
Speaker:then they came back to me several
Speaker:weeks later, kind of like,
Speaker:I don't know, kind of shaming me,
Speaker:saying you can do that.
Speaker:I can't believe how many people we
Speaker:have coming up for
Speaker:the next season.
Speaker:We were preparing loosely for
Speaker:this and we got some great
Speaker:names in as we prepared.
Speaker:So we're doing these in seasons of
Speaker:10. And I think our seasons are
Speaker:going to broadly match
Speaker:the UK academic year
Speaker:because it works.
Speaker:So it will be one
Speaker:in January,
Speaker:one after Easter
Speaker:time, so April
Speaker:and then come again
Speaker:in September, broadly.
Speaker:Okay, so we're following our kids'
Speaker:schedules in terms of the schooling
Speaker:format for the UK.
Speaker:Is that what's happening?
Speaker:I think it works, doesn't it?
Speaker:Because then you get January,
Speaker:February, a bit of March, then you
Speaker:have a break.
Speaker:And then April, May, June, a
Speaker:little bit of break over the summer
Speaker:and then September through November,
Speaker:and then pick up again.
Speaker:And we're doing it in 10 episode
Speaker:chunks, although I think we might
Speaker:have done 11 this last
Speaker:time.
Speaker:And now this one is 12.
Speaker:So we're giving you two bonus
Speaker:episodes.
Speaker:So when we return, we
Speaker:already have eight
Speaker:episodes.
Speaker:I know. I'm so excited.
Speaker:We're ahead of the game.
Speaker:I felt like last time we were so
Speaker:behind the eight ball trying to put
Speaker:together episodes, whereas this time
Speaker:we've already planted eight
Speaker:interviews and we are
Speaker:well set up for next season.
Speaker:But what that does mean is there
Speaker:are two slots
Speaker:left.
Speaker:And so if you
Speaker:have an amazing
Speaker:guest suggestion,
Speaker:drop us a line.
Speaker:We are throwing this out to the
Speaker:operations room listeners.
Speaker:We must have listeners that have
Speaker:opinions about guests that would be
Speaker:good for us.
Speaker:So yeah, if you do, please submit
Speaker:them. We'd be happy to get in
Speaker:contact with some phenomenal people
Speaker:for the last two slots.
Speaker:Yeah, so it's your opportunity to
Speaker:request anybody you want us to
Speaker:interview. Let us know and we'll
Speaker:try our best to get them in.
Speaker:So, who is upcoming for
Speaker:next season?
Speaker:So we have a bit of an AI
Speaker:theme and we have three people
Speaker:coming in to talk AI
Speaker:and sales for two of them.
Speaker:One of my new favorite, I don't
Speaker:know, my fan girling her,
Speaker:Donna. She's really good and you
Speaker:should follow her on LinkedIn and
Speaker:we'll give you her name in
Speaker:the speaker notes.
Speaker:And then we have Milo
Speaker:who's also come to talk to us about
Speaker:AI and sales and I really
Speaker:push on where do we get productivity
Speaker:for salespeople AI with him.
Speaker:And then Agatha is a bit more of a
Speaker:big picture, what's gonna happen
Speaker:to the world in AI
Speaker:and should we be freaking out or
Speaker:not? I swing wildly between
Speaker:the two, between loving it and
Speaker:thinking it's the end of the world.
Speaker:So those are our AI people.
Speaker:And then we have two returning
Speaker:guests in Keith
Speaker:Wallington who
Speaker:came and talked to us originally
Speaker:about how to handle
Speaker:like COO board relations.
Speaker:And this time Keith is talking to us
Speaker:about what's the role of a ceo
Speaker:versus the role in the sea and
Speaker:that was really to help me
Speaker:transition.
Speaker:He is by far my favorite guest we've
Speaker:had on the show thus far.
Speaker:I think he's amazing.
Speaker:I don't know what it is about this
Speaker:guy, but what he talks about,
Speaker:that there's so many like moments of
Speaker:value there. You know, like that,
Speaker:when he talked about the board last
Speaker:time, he was like, yes, this is the
Speaker:chairman of the board that I would
Speaker:love to work with that I've never
Speaker:seen before.
Speaker:And seven or eight things that he
Speaker:kind of popped out with and like,
Speaker:yeah, if we did those things that
Speaker:can transform the board.
Speaker:So I feel like for this return
Speaker:of Keith, I was definitely up
Speaker:for it.
Speaker:And then we also have, so
Speaker:for you, a bit of fanboying with
Speaker:Cameron Herald, who's another
Speaker:returning guest.
Speaker:And I'm surprised you're not saying
Speaker:he's your favorite guest ever
Speaker:because, you know.
Speaker:Little starstruck there.
Speaker:It is fantastic that Cameron came
Speaker:back on the show because he is
Speaker:a big deal in the CEO space.
Speaker:And, you know, like I said before,
Speaker:he was one of the original people
Speaker:that I looked up to in terms of,
Speaker:okay, I need to figure out how to be
Speaker:a CEO. He was the one person that
Speaker:seemed to make sense to me.
Speaker:And I listened to a lot of his
Speaker:podcasts in the early days.
Speaker:Yeah, just a phenomenal guy,
Speaker:phenomenal speaker, and just very
Speaker:engaging with, I think, the topics
Speaker:that we spoke about.
Speaker:So very excited for that one to be
Speaker:released.
Speaker:And there's also you're both
Speaker:Canadian, so you know, he can have a
Speaker:little, I don't even know what to
Speaker:call Canadian.
Speaker:He cracks me up because I remember
Speaker:going to the website for the CEO
Speaker:Alliance, which he runs,
Speaker:and I don't know what possessed me
Speaker:to do this or how I got into this,
Speaker:but he was hiring for
Speaker:either a BDR or an account executive
Speaker:to sell his memberships.
Speaker:And I remember reading the job
Speaker:description and it was by far
Speaker:one of the funniest ones that I'd
Speaker:ever read because at the end of it,
Speaker:it said something to the effect of
Speaker:like, you are gonna make this amount
Speaker:of money guaranteed.
Speaker:Then in the subtext, it was kind of
Speaker:like. Because basically if you
Speaker:don't hit your quota, you're gonna
Speaker:be gone.
Speaker:I was like, all right,
Speaker:congratulations for being very
Speaker:straightforward with your job
Speaker:descriptions. So there's no
Speaker:illusions as to being retained
Speaker:if you do not hit your quotas.
Speaker:So those are our themes.
Speaker:Then we have Ed Barrow joining us to
Speaker:talk about VC economics.
Speaker:So similar to the
Speaker:episode we did probably a
Speaker:year ago on private equity
Speaker:economics. We decided to do the
Speaker:same on how do
Speaker:VC funds work, how do they make
Speaker:money, and what do you need to know
Speaker:as an operator in a
Speaker:VC-backed business,
Speaker:particularly when you're making a
Speaker:decision as to whether or not you
Speaker:join that company.
Speaker:So anybody in a VC backed business
Speaker:highly recommend listening to Ed.
Speaker:I feel like for this one, I learned
Speaker:a lot.
Speaker:I like those episodes or those
Speaker:interviews that we do sometimes
Speaker:where I distinctly don't
Speaker:know enough or I have like
Speaker:a limited set of knowledge.
Speaker:And Ed Barrow was one of those kinds
Speaker:of guys where he kind of like
Speaker:unveiled a greater world of VC
Speaker:economics that I didn't quite
Speaker:understand before, which was great.
Speaker:He did in a very easy to understand
Speaker:way.
Speaker:So yeah, I think that was great.
Speaker:Then we have a bit of like
Speaker:old school operations room,
Speaker:I would say.
Speaker:So the more traditional
Speaker:strategy, ops,
Speaker:leadership, personal development
Speaker:side of things with
Speaker:three different women.
Speaker:We have Vess talking
Speaker:about the strength
Speaker:of operational strategy
Speaker:and the point of operational
Speaker:strategy rather than just
Speaker:operations for operations sake and
Speaker:also quite a bit around
Speaker:international expansion.
Speaker:She was VP of international
Speaker:expansion at Hopper and so
Speaker:how to go to America properly,
Speaker:how to notice early when
Speaker:you've gotten things right or wrong
Speaker:is always helpful.
Speaker:So quite a few practical tips
Speaker:there. And then Alicia
Speaker:was Alicia, I
Speaker:have no idea, surname.
Speaker:Diamond, oh, that's right, because
Speaker:we talked about, she's not EOS,
Speaker:because remember, she's come up with
Speaker:her own that we really liked, and we
Speaker:told her to make a book.
Speaker:The diamond method.
Speaker:Do you remember that we were pushing
Speaker:that?
Speaker:I do doubt the diamond method,
Speaker:right?
Speaker:Yeah, so if your name is Alicia
Speaker:Diamond, you have to write a book
Speaker:and it has to be called something
Speaker:like The Diamond Method.
Speaker:And so Alicia is a
Speaker:tech COO who decided
Speaker:to leave tech and take what she's
Speaker:learned and apply it into the real
Speaker:world with companies that have
Speaker:actual products and has
Speaker:figured out some methodologies
Speaker:of what she has learned and what
Speaker:works in all businesses.
Speaker:And then our final I realized
Speaker:that we just ate that we've recorded
Speaker:but we have a ninth booked in.
Speaker:So actually we only have one slot
Speaker:left. So there's a real competition
Speaker:as to who's gonna get the final
Speaker:slot.
Speaker:We just updated everyone, so there's
Speaker:one slot left, not two.
Speaker:And the final one is
Speaker:somebody who,
Speaker:and I'm just gonna call her somebody
Speaker:because I have to look to figure out
Speaker:her name, but I really enjoyed
Speaker:our conversation.
Speaker:A little bit of looking behind
Speaker:the scene, or like behind the
Speaker:curtain. What happens for
Speaker:most of our interviews is
Speaker:we either approach guests or
Speaker:guests approach us, or we're
Speaker:introduced to somebody, and then for
Speaker:the most part, more often than not,
Speaker:I have a quick conversation with
Speaker:them.
Speaker:To tell them a bit about the
Speaker:podcast, get to know them, and
Speaker:figure out what we wanna talk about
Speaker:and some of the early questions and
Speaker:themes. And so that's why sometimes
Speaker:you can tell that I might reference
Speaker:something that you've not heard
Speaker:about and that's because I've
Speaker:actually spent a little bit of time
Speaker:with our guests.
Speaker:And so I spent some time with her,
Speaker:loved our conversation and can't
Speaker:wait to carry on with our
Speaker:interview, because she
Speaker:is not a believer in OKRs
Speaker:and has come up with a new
Speaker:methodology, very much
Speaker:focused on what are
Speaker:the puzzles we're trying to solve,
Speaker:and how do we approach solving those
Speaker:puzzles, and how we track puzzles
Speaker:in effect rather than objectives.
Speaker:So a puzzle metaphor.
Speaker:I was thinking back to Cameron
Speaker:Harrold with his puzzle of
Speaker:the vivid vision kind of
Speaker:talk that we had previously,
Speaker:but love it. Puzzles versus OKRs.
Speaker:Yeah, and it's not a metaphor like
Speaker:Cameron.
Speaker:So better spoiler alert for with
Speaker:Cameron. Cameron has like looking at
Speaker:a business and all the different
Speaker:puzzle pieces pulled together.
Speaker:This is literally what
Speaker:are the things you need to solve,
Speaker:but let's call them puzzles.
Speaker:And how do you approach solving
Speaker:big, thorny, critical
Speaker:issues to keep your business afloat
Speaker:or unlock growth or
Speaker:whatever it is.
Speaker:It's almost like a use of language.
Speaker:I guess it's like an objective is
Speaker:very linear.
Speaker:You're like, there's your objective
Speaker:and now march to
Speaker:your objective.
Speaker:Whereas if you talk about a puzzle,
Speaker:you can imagine it being like a big
Speaker:ball of string and how you're
Speaker:gonna unpick it and how are you
Speaker:gonna solve the problem.
Speaker:As the objective might be solving
Speaker:the problem, that it just makes you
Speaker:think about it in a
Speaker:freer, more creative
Speaker:way.
Speaker:That's a good point.
Speaker:Yeah, you're right. I mean, this is
Speaker:definitely part of OKRs, which is
Speaker:you're trying to discover possible
Speaker:ways of tackling the objective.
Speaker:I mean, it's interesting that you
Speaker:mentioned this actually, because
Speaker:this was a key cornerstone of how we
Speaker:approached OKR in the last round in
Speaker:my last company, which is, you know,
Speaker:we would have a set of initiatives,
Speaker:which were the best thoughts we had
Speaker:at the time. Once those initiatives
Speaker:kind of were in play, we discovered
Speaker:a bunch more things and then we kind
Speaker:of revised our set of initiative
Speaker:based on some of the discovery that
Speaker:had happened. But I think you're I
Speaker:think this curiosity and kind of.
Speaker:Kind of unraveling the onion, so to
Speaker:speak, is definitely a core part of
Speaker:the OKR kind of
Speaker:process, I suppose.
Speaker:So I'm looking forward to that,
Speaker:which means one
Speaker:slot left, and then we'll start
Speaker:filling up for April.
Speaker:Sounds like a lifetime away, April,
Speaker:doesn't it?
Speaker:I know, I know.
Speaker:And it'll be here soon enough.
Speaker:I feel like every single week that
Speaker:has passed for the past month and a
Speaker:half has gone by in the blink of an
Speaker:eye and suddenly it's the weekend as
Speaker:it is right now.
Speaker:So it makes you wonder sometimes
Speaker:like, what am I doing with my life?
Speaker:It just goes, it evaporates in a
Speaker:second.
Speaker:It's so funny you say that because i
Speaker:do have been having this thought and
Speaker:i go to sleep at night and i'm like
Speaker:so tired and so grateful to go to
Speaker:bed and as soon as i lay down i
Speaker:think. One more day done
Speaker:one more day of my life over
Speaker:and i just have like this really.
Speaker:You're like, what is going on here?
Speaker:Yeah, and it's not a pleasant
Speaker:thought to go to sleep on,
Speaker:of like, I'm that much closer to
Speaker:death, or, you know, and then it's
Speaker:like, Okay, yeah.
Speaker:There, there's a truism to this.
Speaker:100% yes.
Speaker:And then I can't remember if I've
Speaker:mentioned this, but I've ended up
Speaker:doing a cardio
Speaker:fitness class,
Speaker:or cardio dance.
Speaker:It's basically aerobics, but we
Speaker:pretend it's dance.
Speaker:And it's great fun.
Speaker:And, it's the only
Speaker:time that I'm not thinking about
Speaker:work in any way, because I'm
Speaker:trying not to step on people and
Speaker:at least vaguely go in the right
Speaker:direction.
Speaker:And I I hate running,
Speaker:and this is a way, like.
Speaker:I get my heart rate up to about 180,
Speaker:185 for at least one if not two
Speaker:songs in every 45
Speaker:minutes. So it's full on
Speaker:cardiovascular.
Speaker:But my knees really hurt.
Speaker:And now every time I stand up, my
Speaker:right knee is like, oof.
Speaker:But I just have decided I'm going to
Speaker:ignore it because I want to be
Speaker:able to do the dance and I don't
Speaker:care that my knee hurts.
Speaker:This is just a new collateral
Speaker:damage.
Speaker:It's like, how far can I go before
Speaker:this is not the right
Speaker:tactic to take?
Speaker:I know, it's such a typical thing,
Speaker:isn't it? You're having a problem,
Speaker:you just ignore it as long as you
Speaker:can, and then eventually, either it
Speaker:just goes away or it becomes an
Speaker:actual problem.
Speaker:Yeah, and I'm really betting
Speaker:on this one going away.
Speaker:I have zero evidence other than
Speaker:like willpower,
Speaker:but it hasn't gotten worse.
Speaker:So I'm going to say that this is
Speaker:okay. And it's okay, I have to limp
Speaker:a little bit every time I stand up.
Speaker:Before you wind up, there's one more
Speaker:thing that we need to talk about.
Speaker:Because the people who help us,
Speaker:again, behind the scenes, another
Speaker:behind the curtain
Speaker:moment, is we have
Speaker:people who helped us.
Speaker:And one of them is Anna.
Speaker:And and it is a lot of our
Speaker:marketing.
Speaker:And Anna has asked us for this
Speaker:entire season to
Speaker:promote the fact that we have
Speaker:a sub stack and that you should
Speaker:subscribe to the sub stack.
Speaker:And we have failed
Speaker:miserably for 10 episodes
Speaker:to ever once mention the sub stacks.
Speaker:Right, so right at the very end of
Speaker:this kind of wrap-up episode.
Speaker:We are horrible marketers.
Speaker:We apologize, Hannah.
Speaker:So if you can subscribe to the sub
Speaker:stack, it will remind you and give
Speaker:you notes about every episode.
Speaker:We also have some stuff for
Speaker:our subscribers, which is more
Speaker:in-depth content.
Speaker:And every so often we
Speaker:share a little bit more extra
Speaker:content with everybody.
Speaker:So if like what we do and
Speaker:you want to learn more,
Speaker:go look at our sub stack.
Speaker:And then also we do have the chat
Speaker:GPT as well that you mentioned
Speaker:earlier, Brandon.
Speaker:Yes. You know what is interesting?
Speaker:I actually read one
Speaker:of your substack entries.
Speaker:I think it was under the paid column
Speaker:for some reason. Is there like a
Speaker:paid version of substack?
Speaker:I don't even know actually, to be
Speaker:honest.
Speaker:There is like, so if you subscribe
Speaker:to the podcast, you're subscribing
Speaker:via sub stack and then you get paid
Speaker:content.
Speaker:Interesting, because the article
Speaker:that I read, it was really good.
Speaker:I was like, oh my God, this is
Speaker:amazing.
Speaker:I don't know if you actually wrote
Speaker:it, Bethany or not, or whether it
Speaker:was Anna or the two of you together,
Speaker:but- I think it would be a
Speaker:collaboration.
Speaker:Okay, that is a great article.
Speaker:I actually was compelled when I was
Speaker:reading it.
Speaker:I SPA-
Speaker:What was it about?
Speaker:But it was like very reflective.
Speaker:It was one of your more reflective
Speaker:ones.
Speaker:Okay, yeah, this was on the how to
Speaker:do everything.
Speaker:Yes, how to do everything.
Speaker:That was it.
Speaker:And so if you become a subscriber,
Speaker:you support us, you get amazing
Speaker:extra content that Brandon
Speaker:should clearly start paying for as
Speaker:well.
Speaker:Figure out how to do everything in
Speaker:my life. I'm overwhelmed.
Speaker:Yeah, so thanks for that.
Speaker:And now Anna will be slightly less
Speaker:annoyed with us for having failed
Speaker:miserably to promote anything this
Speaker:season.
Speaker:All right, lovely.
Speaker:So on that note, let's wrap up
Speaker:our season and we will see you
Speaker:next year.
Speaker:I'm gonna just say bye.
