88. Discovering Your Strengths
In this episode we discuss: Discovering Your Strengths and Living The Life That You Want. We are joined by Alicia Diamond, COO and Transformation Leader.
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We chat about the following with Alicia Diamond:
- What happens when you stop waiting for “perfect clarity” and start sharing half-formed ideas with your team?
- How much operational value is lost because your best thinking happens outside formal meetings?
- Are your leadership decisions driven by energy and context — or by calendar availability?
- What if the real bottleneck in your organisation isn’t process, but permission to think out loud?
- How do you create space for strategic thinking when the operational noise never really stops?
References
- https://www.linkedin.com/in/alicia-diamond/
- https://aliciadiamond.substack.com/
- https://www.aliciadiamond.com
Biography
Alicia has been the right-hand, “figure it out” partner to 5 CEOs as a 2x COO and 2x Chief of Staff. She's helped visionary CEOs across diverse industries to get their most transformative ideas unstuck and into action. Highlights include launching the Long-Term Stock Exchange and proving the bottom-line impact for listed clients and founding/managing the Chinese factory behind a portfolio of direct-to-consumer brands.
She sharpened her operational prowess under the scrutiny of top-tier investors including a16z, Founders Fund, Collaborative Fund, Obvious Ventures while working in the Lean Startup methodology, at Eric Ries' startup stock exchange.
Recently, Alicia expanded from working in tech into partnering with SMB owners. She helps visionary owners achieve their growth goals through scalable technology, best-in-class operating practices, and people-first leadership.
To learn more about Beth and Brandon or to find out about sponsorship opportunities click here.
Summary
05:45 — The power of unplanned conversations
06:55 — Why half-formed ideas are a leadership superpower
08:30 — Meetings vs momentum
11:00 — Energy as an operational constraint
14:15 — The danger of over-polished thinking
18:00 — Creating environments where ideas can be safely unfinished
22:10 — Leadership presence over process
26:30 — Rethinking how and when strategy happens
30:45 — What operators can do differently tomorrow
This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
Podcorn - https://podcorn.com/privacy
Transcript
Hello everyone and welcome to
Speaker:another episode of the Operations
Speaker:Room, a podcast for COOs.
Speaker:I am Brandon Mencinga joined by my
Speaker:amazing co-host Bethany Ayers.
Speaker:How are things going, Bethany?
Speaker:As I'm asking this question, I'm
Speaker:trying to prop myself up with energy
Speaker:and I'm sure you are too.
Speaker:I really am.
Speaker:I'm just, I'm tired.
Speaker:I need a holiday.
Speaker:And for whatever reason, my hand has
Speaker:started to hurt.
Speaker:Your hand.
Speaker:Hahaha.
Speaker:My right hand is just really sore.
Speaker:Why is that?
Speaker:To which signature writing or what's
Speaker:happening?
Speaker:Yeah, all those
Speaker:deals I'm signing, and I have no
Speaker:idea.
Speaker:It's just, am I using
Speaker:my phone too much?
Speaker:Am I developing arthritis?
Speaker:Or am I sleeping
Speaker:on it strangely? I have no idea, but
Speaker:it's just
Speaker:sore, the whole thing.
Speaker:And it's putting me in a bit of a
Speaker:bad mood because it just
Speaker:hurts.
Speaker:Not unbearable pain, like maybe
Speaker:four, but just
Speaker:all the time.
Speaker:Do you think it's stress-related
Speaker:somehow, it's a manifestation of
Speaker:your inner being?
Speaker:Everything is stress-related, but
Speaker:maybe it's kind of been going
Speaker:on and off for a few
Speaker:weeks, but all of my joints
Speaker:are also a bit more sore than they
Speaker:used to be. So now I'm thinking, do
Speaker:I need to take collagen?
Speaker:What's the thing for joints?
Speaker:Yeah, yeah, I think it's joint
Speaker:related because like I mentioned
Speaker:before, I have a similar joint.
Speaker:It's not joint. It's my lower back.
Speaker:It's such a traditional old
Speaker:person thing, isn't it?
Speaker:Oh, my lower-back.
Speaker:But legit, and not because I'm
Speaker:old per se, but I think just
Speaker:combined with the workouts and the
Speaker:deadlifts and the squats and all
Speaker:that, I thing my body is
Speaker:telling me something useful that I
Speaker:should pay attention to.
Speaker:My birthday is next week, so
Speaker:definitely aging and
Speaker:death is sitting on me.
Speaker:And then- Are you turning 50,
Speaker:by the way? No.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:No.
Speaker:What?
Speaker:More year.
Speaker:Late 40s. Okay.
Speaker:Yeah, one more year to go.
Speaker:But yeah, closing in on, again,
Speaker:next week we'll be closing in on my
Speaker:50th year, which is just a
Speaker:strange because on the inside I
Speaker:don't feel that way, but yet on the
Speaker:outside. And then also dealing with,
Speaker:like I was thinking about this, like
Speaker:when I was at peak,
Speaker:where the bulk of the people were
Speaker:just either side of 30,
Speaker:like kind of marriages happening,
Speaker:babies happening, and I
Speaker:was 40.
Speaker:And so like a 10-year difference, it
Speaker:all felt okay.
Speaker:Now at Matomic, everybody
Speaker:is either side of 30,
Speaker:again, because that's what attracts
Speaker:startups.
Speaker:But now I'm
Speaker:approaching 50.
Speaker:And so it's like a 20-year
Speaker:difference between me and everybody,
Speaker:rather than a 10-year difference.
Speaker:And it's just a lot.
Speaker:It's interesting because just as an
Speaker:aside, we have our Christmas party
Speaker:coming up at the end of this year.
Speaker:We're going to some
Speaker:restaurant, as you'd expect, and
Speaker:there's two karaoke rooms afterwards
Speaker:for, I think at 9 p.m., 10 p.
Speaker:M., something like that.
Speaker:So then I was thinking about my
Speaker:usual genre of
Speaker:stuff that I would typically do for
Speaker:karaoke.
Speaker:Are any of these songs relevant
Speaker:anymore in terms of people actually
Speaker:knowing them at all?
Speaker:And they will definitely date me as
Speaker:being super old.
Speaker:And then I'm thinking to myself,
Speaker:well, Should I just not do the
Speaker:karaoke now? Like, is it not going
Speaker:to be cool? Am I just, I don't know.
Speaker:I'm doubting myself.
Speaker:Yeah, well, because our music are
Speaker:now oldies, you know,
Speaker:and so they'll know them, but
Speaker:they'll be like, Oh, yeah, classic.
Speaker:So it is, I'm just kind of
Speaker:coming to terms with like,
Speaker:normally I'm coming to terms with
Speaker:mortality, but this time I'm coming
Speaker:to term with becoming a fuddy duddy.
Speaker:And like, I never thought that would
Speaker:be me, but then I look at
Speaker:like women who are older than me,
Speaker:who are still really cool,
Speaker:and they're like, you can
Speaker:choose.
Speaker:I think so too.
Speaker:There is a physicality that
Speaker:I can definitely feel now that I did
Speaker:not feel before and it makes me feel
Speaker:old. So I think it impacts my
Speaker:mindset and psyche to some extent in
Speaker:a not positive way.
Speaker:You know, and I, as you know, I'm
Speaker:a gym person.
Speaker:I work out all the time.
Speaker:I'm in great shape generally
Speaker:speaking, but just the aches
Speaker:and pains that are associated to
Speaker:what's happening now, I just feel,
Speaker:it just makes me feel old and how
Speaker:you counterbalance that in terms of
Speaker:your mindset, I don't know, but I'm
Speaker:right in the midst of it right now.
Speaker:So I am too, because this started
Speaker:with my sore hand, but I've also
Speaker:been doing this dance class and it
Speaker:is clearly not good for my right
Speaker:knee.
Speaker:Not good enough to go to the doctor
Speaker:over, particularly because the
Speaker:appointments with doctors or physios
Speaker:are always very underwhelming.
Speaker:But my right knee is not in
Speaker:a good place.
Speaker:And so when I stand up, I kind
Speaker:of have to let it warm up a little
Speaker:bit or half limp to get the
Speaker:pain out.
Speaker:And again, these are just these
Speaker:things. I like trying to style out
Speaker:the sore knee before I can
Speaker:take the next step when I'd stand up
Speaker:from my desk.
Speaker:So what else is happening in the
Speaker:world of Bethany?
Speaker:I'm definitely settling more into
Speaker:the role, have learned a lot,
Speaker:understand the technology, starting
Speaker:to understand the placement of
Speaker:us in the world.
Speaker:But yesterday,
Speaker:yesterday for the first time ever,
Speaker:we actually filled up
Speaker:all of the desks in our office
Speaker:because we had two people who
Speaker:were working remote in and
Speaker:nobody was on, oh no, actually one
Speaker:person was on holiday.
Speaker:Ooh, so we would have maybe been
Speaker:one desk short.
Speaker:But there's always multiple people
Speaker:on holiday, or out ill,
Speaker:or you're working remote, so we've
Speaker:never filled up the whole desk, all
Speaker:the desks. So it was quite nice.
Speaker:It was like, oh, look, it's a real
Speaker:company with a bit of a vibe, but
Speaker:it was busy day, lots of
Speaker:meetings, even an enforced
Speaker:meeting.
Speaker:And then I was talking
Speaker:to somebody in the kitchen area,
Speaker:like while people are leaving and
Speaker:had one more person come and join
Speaker:us, and we ended up having a
Speaker:really good
Speaker:and go-to-market and general
Speaker:strategy meeting,
Speaker:totally impromptu, to other members
Speaker:of the leadership team.
Speaker:And it was just a massively valuable
Speaker:hour and a half.
Speaker:And I was like, why did that have
Speaker:to happen between six and
Speaker:half seven and not earlier
Speaker:in the day? And they were actually
Speaker:the people I was in another meeting
Speaker:with for two hours.
Speaker:And that meeting wasn't nearly as
Speaker:good. And as just like, sometimes
Speaker:you need no agenda and just
Speaker:impromptic conversation and really
Speaker:good things happen.
Speaker:So I was trying to think like, how
Speaker:can we do it where it doesn't have
Speaker:to be after hours?
Speaker:Yeah, you know what's interesting?
Speaker:So I think I mentioned this some
Speaker:time back, but my previous company,
Speaker:Trent, the C-suite team,
Speaker:there's three of us and then four of
Speaker:us, every, was that every week or
Speaker:every other week, we would have a
Speaker:breakfast meetup with Jeff,
Speaker:the CEO, and we would sit there with
Speaker:no agenda. And this was very
Speaker:specific and explicit on our part to
Speaker:do this outside of the leadership
Speaker:meetings.
Speaker:Sit there, have our breakfast,
Speaker:and whatever riffing that we were
Speaker:doing was purely organic
Speaker:and just to really do what you just
Speaker:said, which is just talk through our
Speaker:thoughts. Sometimes your thoughts
Speaker:are half-formed,
Speaker:and that's actually a good thing
Speaker:because if you put it out there as a
Speaker:half-form thought, where something
Speaker:is tweaked in your mind, somebody
Speaker:can pick up on that, build off
Speaker:of it, riff off of that, and by the
Speaker:time you finish that breakfast,
Speaker:you've actually produced something
Speaker:useful for the company.
Speaker:We're like, oh yeah, this strand
Speaker:that we just identified makes
Speaker:tremendous sense and therefore we
Speaker:should actually do something.
Speaker:So now I'm thinking, can I
Speaker:fit in a breakfast or how do we do
Speaker:it?
Speaker:One member of the team is remote,
Speaker:which kind of makes it
Speaker:a bit more difficult.
Speaker:But I do think it's important to
Speaker:have that free thought time,
Speaker:particularly when you're handling
Speaker:thorny questions and not everything
Speaker:is.
Speaker:Yeah, it's a bit like what you said
Speaker:before around OKRs where
Speaker:sometimes your objective as
Speaker:you lay it out all seems very linear
Speaker:and you know exactly what,
Speaker:how to get there and for the most
Speaker:part in OKR you have no idea how to
Speaker:go there and it's very much a
Speaker:puzzle.
Speaker:We have got a great topic for
Speaker:today, which is discovering your
Speaker:strengths and living the life that
Speaker:you want.
Speaker:We have an amazing guest for this,
Speaker:which is Alicia Diamond, the former
Speaker:CEO of Long-Term Stock Exchange.
Speaker:First question to you, Bethany,
Speaker:what resonated most with you from
Speaker:Alicia's decision to get off the
Speaker:ladder?
Speaker:It's interesting because we're
Speaker:talking about this linear versus
Speaker:curved path and puzzle.
Speaker:It's like you're on a linear path of
Speaker:a career and you have to go to the
Speaker:next step of it.
Speaker:But you don't have to.
Speaker:You can change what you
Speaker:do and how you lead your life and
Speaker:decide that actually this
Speaker:bit of your career is over and it's
Speaker:time to go explore something else.
Speaker:And it's just a real privilege
Speaker:to be able to do that and
Speaker:have that freedom.
Speaker:But I think oftentimes in a scale
Speaker:up, the journey tells you when
Speaker:in some respects, like either it's
Speaker:force because the company's acquired
Speaker:or some major event occurs or
Speaker:you're being laid off, obviously,
Speaker:that type of thing.
Speaker:But equally with the ebbs and flows
Speaker:of scale ups, you can get a sense of
Speaker:the journey coming to a close.
Speaker:And it's been a little spidey senses
Speaker:that start tingling where you're
Speaker:like, okay, I think I've done my
Speaker:piece here and it's time to look at
Speaker:something else. And I find that a
Speaker:rather organic process.
Speaker:The other thing that I was just
Speaker:thinking about was the
Speaker:quarterly check in with yourself.
Speaker:And I was having an epiphany
Speaker:slightly in the sense that
Speaker:previously when I used my,
Speaker:with Matthew Stone, my business
Speaker:coach, I would meet him in
Speaker:the latter days on a quarterly
Speaker:basis.
Speaker:When I think about it, what that
Speaker:was, was a retro
Speaker:on where I was at with the company,
Speaker:with myself, a bit of a personal
Speaker:reflection.
Speaker:And Matthew on a corny basis would
Speaker:help me think that through.
Speaker:And I feel like for any
Speaker:senior executive, that forcing
Speaker:function of having a business
Speaker:coach.
Speaker:That's mapped into your calendar to
Speaker:have a chat with that person about
Speaker:what is going on in your life seems
Speaker:very useful because I think for the
Speaker:most part, most of us don't do this.
Speaker:We're like, yeah, I should do some
Speaker:retro with myself, some personal
Speaker:reflection, and you never do it,
Speaker:right? But if you have a business
Speaker:coach sitting there waiting
Speaker:for you at 1 p.m.
Speaker:On Thursday calendarized,
Speaker:you're like all right, I'm obviously
Speaker:going to that because I'm paying him
Speaker:600 pounds for this session.
Speaker:Yeah, that's a really good idea.
Speaker:I don't do it.
Speaker:So I'm always kind of like reactive
Speaker:to what's going on and
Speaker:what happens rather than actually
Speaker:planning a retro
Speaker:or like a bit of
Speaker:time to reflect on a
Speaker:season.
Speaker:Kind of like that idea.
Speaker:And also pulling it into the
Speaker:season seems appropriate.
Speaker:Next question.
Speaker:Do you think COOs underestimate
Speaker:the cost of sprinting marathons?
Speaker:And the quote from Alicia was, as
Speaker:much as we say to ourselves it's a
Speaker:marathon and not a sprint, we end up
Speaker:sprinting Marathons.
Speaker:You can begin to lose yourself and
Speaker:lose your perspective.
Speaker:I do feel like
Speaker:I've gotten better at this each
Speaker:time.
Speaker:And then while I'm in it, I'm like,
Speaker:yeah, yeah I'm fine.
Speaker:I know I'm conserving energy, I
Speaker:have boundaries.
Speaker:And yet at the end of every
Speaker:role, I am totally burnt out
Speaker:and don't realize it.
Speaker:I mean, I shouldn't, I probably one
Speaker:of these people who's misusing
Speaker:burnout in that I'm curled
Speaker:up on the floor with
Speaker:adrenal collapse but
Speaker:After leaving a job, I never
Speaker:go from one job to another.
Speaker:I always end up with a
Speaker:18 month to two year break between
Speaker:jobs while I go and explore
Speaker:other things.
Speaker:But the first month or
Speaker:two of that process is a
Speaker:lot of time with me
Speaker:just properly relaxing
Speaker:and recharging.
Speaker:So I suspect I'm probably sprinting
Speaker:more than I think at the time.
Speaker:I mean, that seems like your
Speaker:personality.
Speaker:But equally, if you're taking
Speaker:extended breaks in between at this
Speaker:stage in your life, then maybe
Speaker:that's reasonable. I don't quite
Speaker:know. I mean I always find that
Speaker:when you take extended periods
Speaker:to recharge, you kind of
Speaker:need it. When you take a holiday for
Speaker:two weeks or three weeks, I find
Speaker:that does not recharge me very
Speaker:specifically. Like I need time to
Speaker:gear down because I can feel my
Speaker:body. I wake up in the morning on a
Speaker:holiday on day two or something
Speaker:and I'm like raring to go?
Speaker:What's the schedule?
Speaker:What are we doing today?
Speaker:My mind is geared towards like
Speaker:velocity and movement.
Speaker:And it takes me a while to like stop
Speaker:doing that to the point where I wake
Speaker:up in the morning, like, I'm just
Speaker:gonna go for breakfast, no plans,
Speaker:you know, it's golden.
Speaker:You also have young children.
Speaker:So I don't think with a young
Speaker:family, any holiday is
Speaker:actually relaxing.
Speaker:That is a very good point.
Speaker:You know, I had another
Speaker:sort of revelation.
Speaker:I hate both ideas,
Speaker:and I don't think I do either, to be
Speaker:honest, which is I don't sprint and
Speaker:I do not do marathons.
Speaker:I'm very consistent.
Speaker:My whole personality is geared
Speaker:towards consistency, reliability,
Speaker:step-by-step balance, as
Speaker:it were.
Speaker:I kind of revolt if people are
Speaker:asking me to work in ways that are
Speaker:unnatural for myself, whether it's
Speaker:to work, usually it's work faster
Speaker:obviously, but equally I hate
Speaker:the sense of moving slowly as well.
Speaker:Just the analogy in my head,
Speaker:I go to the gym three days
Speaker:a week and I do it religiously
Speaker:regardless of anything, so whether
Speaker:I'm not feeling well, I'm into it.
Speaker:Work is bananas, whatever,
Speaker:or there's family issues or what
Speaker:have you. I'm always there, always
Speaker:doing it with a consistent level of
Speaker:zeal and energy that goes into it.
Speaker:So even if I start that session not
Speaker:feeling the greatest, I eventually
Speaker:will kick into gear at some point
Speaker:during that session and it will be
Speaker:usually a great session by
Speaker:the end of it.
Speaker:So that kind of consistency
Speaker:and pacing and drive, I
Speaker:guess, I apply that to
Speaker:the workplace as well.
Speaker:I don't get burnt out per se.
Speaker:Because i feel like day to day
Speaker:week to week i'm kind of just pacing
Speaker:myself according to what works for
Speaker:brandon if that makes sense.
Speaker:Again, it's just so interesting how
Speaker:different we are in so many
Speaker:different ways.
Speaker:I throw myself
Speaker:into everything,
Speaker:learn everything.
Speaker:I can't think of the
Speaker:locomotive in just
Speaker:100 miles an hour,
Speaker:and then I stop.
Speaker:But for me,
Speaker:when I was younger, that pressure
Speaker:was wanting to succeed,
Speaker:wanting to do a good job.
Speaker:Being the best.
Speaker:And I think there's a lot of outside
Speaker:pressure, whereas now
Speaker:it comes from just like an
Speaker:insatiable curiosity and
Speaker:internal drive.
Speaker:And so maybe that's why I don't
Speaker:perceive it as
Speaker:much as sprinting.
Speaker:Somehow I think of the sprinting as
Speaker:somehow being forced to do it,
Speaker:whereas I'm not forced to it from
Speaker:the outside.
Speaker:I'm compelled to do from the inside,
Speaker:but it still is exhausting.
Speaker:And, I do it with everything.
Speaker:I don't just do it with work,
Speaker:like.
Speaker:Anything that I decide I'm
Speaker:interested in.
Speaker:I go very, very deep,
Speaker:learn a huge amount, and then
Speaker:I'm done.
Speaker:The third thing that she talked
Speaker:about was talking about SMB
Speaker:owners being allergic to
Speaker:EOS, and what
Speaker:does that say about COs
Speaker:need to show up?
Speaker:And the quote from her in this case
Speaker:was, the SMB owner are familiar
Speaker:with EOS but they're allergic to
Speaker:accountability.
Speaker:They say, I started my own business
Speaker:because I don't want to be in that
Speaker:kind of environment.
Speaker:So I borrow from multiple frameworks
Speaker:and try to make it as bespoke as
Speaker:possible in respect to Alicia
Speaker:working with these individuals to
Speaker:help them understand that frameworks
Speaker:Arrrrrrrr.
Speaker:Not to be all and all but they're
Speaker:meant to be a tool by which you can
Speaker:actually apply to the company useful
Speaker:ways that the owner appreciates
Speaker:and can kind of get behind when
Speaker:you make about.
Speaker:I love that.
Speaker:I mean, you know me, I'm not a fan
Speaker:of a framework and I'm really not a
Speaker:fan of an indiscriminately
Speaker:applied framework.
Speaker:And I feel like there's too much of
Speaker:that. You have execs who come with
Speaker:their playbook and they
Speaker:roll out the exact same playbook
Speaker:everywhere they go.
Speaker:You have people who just are like,
Speaker:oh, Netflix did it that way,
Speaker:so we should do it that and we
Speaker:should follow it religiously or
Speaker:EOS makes sense, So let's just roll
Speaker:it out and we have no ability
Speaker:to take the good bit.
Speaker:Whereas I much prefer
Speaker:figuring out
Speaker:which parts of different frameworks
Speaker:and ways of approaching things
Speaker:exist and
Speaker:apply to this situation because
Speaker:no two businesses are the same,
Speaker:no set of people are the same
Speaker:and some things work and some don't.
Speaker:I used to think I just hated all
Speaker:frameworks and when somebody would
Speaker:talk about a framework and have a
Speaker:reaction to it, but now I realize I
Speaker:don't hate all frameworks, I just
Speaker:hate stupidly applied frameworks.
Speaker:That is the literal distinction, I
Speaker:think. So I had a fascinating
Speaker:conversation with somebody in my
Speaker:current company around the next step
Speaker:for the organization, which is we're
Speaker:eminent in getting funding for the
Speaker:company, which means we're going to
Speaker:grow. And the way in which we
Speaker:galvanize the company to activate
Speaker:itself against the priorities of the
Speaker:business invokes what
Speaker:you just said, which is, what is our
Speaker:company's strategy? And then how do
Speaker:we activate in terms of applying
Speaker:OKRs in a way that is sensible
Speaker:for the organization?
Speaker:And the conversation I was having
Speaker:with him was literally this, which
Speaker:is, you know, he's had experiences
Speaker:like we've all had where
Speaker:OKRs were implemented by the rule
Speaker:book effectively, and it was an
Speaker:absolute disaster.
Speaker:And I was heavily in the
Speaker:conversation talking about this in a
Speaker:way of like, yeah, I know what
Speaker:you're saying. I've lived literally
Speaker:everything that you've just
Speaker:described. And let me give you some
Speaker:of my stories to reflect back on
Speaker:your of course.
Speaker:So this idea that sometimes when
Speaker:you set a KR, in particular for a
Speaker:product team, the KR literally
Speaker:cannot be measured quite yet.
Speaker:So the product team has to figure
Speaker:out how to measure it, put the
Speaker:measurements in place and so on.
Speaker:And then they spend the entire first
Speaker:quarter of the OKR totally
Speaker:focused on the KR itself in terms of
Speaker:establishing it and getting it to
Speaker:actually work in the first place.
Speaker:And that's where all their mind
Speaker:share goes.
Speaker:And what I was telling him, and he
Speaker:was kind of relating back to me,
Speaker:that that's what had happened
Speaker:previously. So it was a colossal
Speaker:waste of time. And I was like.
Speaker:Dude, I know exactly what you're
Speaker:saying. It is a waste of time.
Speaker:We will not be doing that.
Speaker:Whatever ends up happening for the
Speaker:KRs will make them directionally
Speaker:make sense.
Speaker:There's easily available
Speaker:measurements out there that we can
Speaker:and should take.
Speaker:Let's take those. And if they're not
Speaker:exactly correct, it kind of doesn't
Speaker:matter because at the end of the
Speaker:day, kind of like this puzzle thing
Speaker:that we spoke about before, we need
Speaker:to figure out what we're doing.
Speaker:And the KR can change.
Speaker:Like on day two, Care doesn't make
Speaker:sense. Toss it.
Speaker:Get another one.
Speaker:Initiatives one, two, and three
Speaker:don't make sense.
Speaker:Punt them. The whole point of this
Speaker:exercise is not to be
Speaker:obsessive and fascinate ourselves
Speaker:around what the care is and how we
Speaker:measure it specifically in this,
Speaker:that, and the other.
Speaker:Jettison all that thinking because
Speaker:it's a waste of time.
Speaker:We were just going through this back
Speaker:and forth and eventually at the end
Speaker:of the chat, he was like, yeah,
Speaker:Brandon, I like what you're thinking
Speaker:here. Let's give this a crack.
Speaker:100%. And the other thing I really
Speaker:hate is one is
Speaker:going off and having to
Speaker:work through the KR, and the other
Speaker:one is I really don't like compound
Speaker:key results.
Speaker:It's like a number that's a
Speaker:function of a formula of
Speaker:five different things.
Speaker:I don't care that we're making
Speaker:it really clear of one number.
Speaker:You're hiding everything,
Speaker:and you can't actually see what's
Speaker:driving it and what is and isn't
Speaker:working. That's another one that
Speaker:people tend to really think they're
Speaker:clever if they come up with these
Speaker:random.
Speaker:Brand new metrics.
Speaker:Literally create a brand
Speaker:new defined metric that
Speaker:constitutes all the the stuff that
Speaker:we actually want to see.
Speaker:All right, last question.
Speaker:She talked about not
Speaker:just being a fractional, but
Speaker:building a fractonal team.
Speaker:And are we seeing a new operating
Speaker:model emerge?
Speaker:And the quote in this case, they're
Speaker:getting a strategic CEO, which is
Speaker:me, plus a whip smart chief
Speaker:of staff and some admin support.
Speaker:I'm bringing the tech startup
Speaker:intensity of operations into SMB
Speaker:where it's sorely needed.
Speaker:What do you make of this fractional
Speaker:plus team orientation that you
Speaker:described as a value prop.
Speaker:Bit of a lightweight consultancy.
Speaker:I don't think I have anything
Speaker:profound.
Speaker:Do you have anything profound?
Speaker:Just in the sense that it just
Speaker:reminded me of Pete Crosby.
Speaker:So for those that don't know, Pete
Speaker:Cresby is a guru for revenue
Speaker:coach, I suppose, for a lot of
Speaker:folks. He's a well-established CRO.
Speaker:So Pete had a very
Speaker:similar concept that he was kind of
Speaker:talking to me about ages ago, where
Speaker:he's one person and he can only
Speaker:stretch his time so far.
Speaker:So I think his idea was to bring
Speaker:together a bunch of operators
Speaker:with a bunch revenue skills,
Speaker:a mixture of skills effectively as a
Speaker:collective and then deploy them
Speaker:into.
Speaker:Organizations as a bit of a tag
Speaker:team. So it's a bit of a similar
Speaker:concept and I guess conceptually,
Speaker:it seems to make tremendous sense
Speaker:because obviously with any company
Speaker:that has revenue challenges,
Speaker:pulling in different skills is a bit
Speaker:of a SWAT team to get
Speaker:them into a different position seems
Speaker:to make sense to me. It seems like a
Speaker:good idea.
Speaker:And this time it's on the operations
Speaker:side. But again, if you do have
Speaker:that kind of network that you can
Speaker:bring together.
Speaker:So not thinking about it on the
Speaker:buyer side, but on the
Speaker:creator side,
Speaker:it's a lot of business development
Speaker:or a lot mouths to feed in
Speaker:order to keep people working.
Speaker:And so it's just like, is there
Speaker:enough demand?
Speaker:And how do you build that demand?
Speaker:Yeah, because it's all bespoke.
Speaker:I mean, it's hard enough to, like,
Speaker:bespoke yourself as this EO into an
Speaker:actual fractional gig, never mind a
Speaker:team of them.
Speaker:All right, last observation
Speaker:slash thought slash question.
Speaker:Alicia Diamond, the diamond method,
Speaker:we like that. We like that phrasing.
Speaker:She needs to create an EOS
Speaker:equivalent and call it that.
Speaker:We told her, we came
Speaker:up with it for her on the podcast.
Speaker:I like Alicia's approach
Speaker:and I like the kind of the
Speaker:non-approach approach.
Speaker:So then the question is, how do you
Speaker:have a book of frameworks
Speaker:and explain how and when to
Speaker:apply the frameworks or how to apply
Speaker:the frameworks lightly?
Speaker:There's definitely a challenge
Speaker:to creating the diamond method,
Speaker:but I'm looking forward to
Speaker:Alicia figuring that out.
Speaker:So on that note, let's wrap it up
Speaker:here. Let's go to our chat with
Speaker:Alicia Diamond, the Diamond Method.
Speaker:What made you decide to come
Speaker:off the ladder?
Speaker:A couple of reasons.
Speaker:I was tired.
Speaker:I think a lot of us find
Speaker:ourselves sprinting
Speaker:for years on end.
Speaker:And as much as we say to ourselves,
Speaker:it's a marathon, not a sprint, we
Speaker:end up sprinting marathons.
Speaker:And you can do amazing work
Speaker:that way.
Speaker:And I guess I'll just speak for my
Speaker:own experience because that's the
Speaker:only one I know, but you can begin
Speaker:to lose yourself.
Speaker:And lose perspective.
Speaker:And I recognized that I had
Speaker:lost a bit of
Speaker:perspective, lost a bit
Speaker:of understanding what else was out
Speaker:there, had de-prioritized
Speaker:health and kind of those other life
Speaker:buckets and wanted to
Speaker:create some space to get that back.
Speaker:And then I also realized that
Speaker:I was not on a steep enough learning
Speaker:curve. So on the one
Speaker:hand, I knew I needed to rest and
Speaker:cover.
Speaker:On the other hand, I felt a bit like
Speaker:I have run this particular marathon
Speaker:course over and over and over.
Speaker:And I'm someone who really values
Speaker:like, put me in a new environment
Speaker:where I don't actually know what's
Speaker:around the corner. So I was craving
Speaker:change and craving
Speaker:just a bit of a reset to understand
Speaker:and kind of appreciate what
Speaker:else is ahead of me.
Speaker:And that sounds so much like
Speaker:my own journey and
Speaker:also in my own career,
Speaker:like definitely always been the
Speaker:glue, want to keep learning.
Speaker:As I think you know,
Speaker:and obviously our listeners are
Speaker:going to know because I keep mentioning
Speaker:it all the time, just became a
Speaker:CEO.
Speaker:Part of what I've been talking about
Speaker:for the vision of what it feels like
Speaker:to work at the company is
Speaker:that we're not going to scale, we're
Speaker:not going have thousands of people,
Speaker:we are not going do the old SAS
Speaker:model, because been
Speaker:there, done that, have the...
Speaker:Sticker or whatever.
Speaker:I can't think of what the the badge.
Speaker:Yeah, the Girl Scout badge.
Speaker:Yeah, exactly. And it's just like,
Speaker:there's just no challenge to it
Speaker:anymore. And so rather
Speaker:than changing industries,
Speaker:what I have challenged
Speaker:the team with is, can we
Speaker:get to 100 million with 50
Speaker:people?
Speaker:How do we use AI?
Speaker:How Do we write the new playbook?
Speaker:And so what you're saying, yeah, it
Speaker:just really resonates with me.
Speaker:So you decided instead of
Speaker:Doubling down on AI to actually
Speaker:move out of tech
Speaker:to learn new things.
Speaker:That seems very scary to me.
Speaker:Well, I will share that the
Speaker:number one reflection I
Speaker:got when I told people I was
Speaker:leaving, they came to me with
Speaker:a lot of assumptions.
Speaker:So I was at a series C
Speaker:FinTech company.
Speaker:So people were like, great, you're
Speaker:gonna go be a COO at a Series D
Speaker:FinTech Company.
Speaker:And I said, no,
Speaker:to your point, Bethany, like
Speaker:FinTech, been there, tried that,
Speaker:want to experience a different
Speaker:playbook.
Speaker:And oh my gosh, the reflections
Speaker:I got back. I'm like, that's so
Speaker:scary. What are you going to do?
Speaker:And I felt so
Speaker:confident
Speaker:in myself, which is
Speaker:something I wish for everyone.
Speaker:I said, I don't know yet, but I
Speaker:have this confidence that it will
Speaker:come. And let me just say that
Speaker:it comes from a place of privilege,
Speaker:and I don t take that lightly.
Speaker:But to have the confidence to say, I
Speaker:will figure it out, and to
Speaker:look at the twists
Speaker:and turns and figuring it
Speaker:as incredibly valuable
Speaker:and that's That's exactly
Speaker:what I did. So as I started having
Speaker:conversations with people,
Speaker:I stopped talking about
Speaker:my career thus far
Speaker:with the easy
Speaker:things, the things I've
Speaker:mentioned on this conversation so
Speaker:far, the title,
Speaker:the here we're our investors,
Speaker:you know, it was FinTech and started
Speaker:talking much more about here's
Speaker:the kind of work that really
Speaker:energizes me, here's kind
Speaker:of the work I love, hear the
Speaker:people I love.
Speaker:The types of people I love to work
Speaker:with, here are the types challenges
Speaker:I like to solve.
Speaker:And I often describe it
Speaker:as building product, right?
Speaker:It doesn't actually matter what I
Speaker:think it matters, what
Speaker:resonates with the market.
Speaker:And the second I took myself
Speaker:out of this box of
Speaker:COO venture-backed
Speaker:fintech and started talking about
Speaker:the other elements of it, the
Speaker:reflections I got back were,
Speaker:Oh, wow, I could see you
Speaker:being really successful in this
Speaker:environment, or you should
Speaker:talk to someone
Speaker:in this other industry.
Speaker:And I felt like I was gathering
Speaker:little threads
Speaker:of curiosity, and I just committed
Speaker:to myself like I am going to pull
Speaker:on every single thread because
Speaker:I jumped off the ladder to explore
Speaker:and see what's there.
Speaker:So let me not have any preconceived
Speaker:notions about where any
Speaker:of these particular threads might
Speaker:lead to.
Speaker:And where those threads led
Speaker:to is I did have some
Speaker:conversations with companies that
Speaker:were venture-backed, tech-oriented,
Speaker:who wanted to do the scale thing,
Speaker:you know, the been there, done
Speaker:there, that playbook as you're
Speaker:talking about, Bethany.
Speaker:I also went down a path
Speaker:of considering buying a business,
Speaker:I think. Most people have seen
Speaker:the headlines.
Speaker:They're in the Wall Street Journal.
Speaker:They are in everywhere right now
Speaker:about we're on
Speaker:the precipice of this massive
Speaker:transfer of wealth,
Speaker:of small businesses, and they're in
Speaker:need of really strong operators.
Speaker:So I went down that path for a
Speaker:while.
Speaker:I went on a number of different
Speaker:paths.
Speaker:What I kept doing and collected
Speaker:from each of them was really this
Speaker:honest.
Speaker:Assessment of does this resonate me
Speaker:like is this is this a
Speaker:jog I want to take if it's a
Speaker:jog I want To take it might be a
Speaker:marathon course I want to run.
Speaker:So kind of keep going after what's
Speaker:interesting.
Speaker:You're in your job, doing your work,
Speaker:your title, your salary,
Speaker:you know, your influence in the
Speaker:company. And then at some point, you
Speaker:start thinking about other things.
Speaker:What is it that I want?
Speaker:What energizes me?
Speaker:Did anything happen to kind of
Speaker:instigate the thinking?
Speaker:When thinking started happening, he
Speaker:went out for reflections.
Speaker:Who was doing the reflections back
Speaker:to you with these like mentors
Speaker:or just walk through the process a
Speaker:little bit.
Speaker:Yeah, a couple of things instigated
Speaker:me thinking.
Speaker:And I'm a big
Speaker:believer that if we don't
Speaker:proactively pause and
Speaker:listen to ourselves,
Speaker:other elements, namely your
Speaker:body, or hopefully,
Speaker:hopefully not, you know, your family
Speaker:or something else will
Speaker:get louder and louder and louder
Speaker:until you listen.
Speaker:So the quick version of this
Speaker:is I...
Speaker:Woke up one morning with some
Speaker:neck pain.
Speaker:I'm someone I've always carried
Speaker:tension in my neck and shoulders
Speaker:and I ignored it and I just took
Speaker:some leave and it got worse and
Speaker:worse and worst.
Speaker:I woke up in the middle of the
Speaker:night. I couldn't raise my head
Speaker:and I was actually
Speaker:going in and out of consciousness
Speaker:from the pain and I kind of
Speaker:kicked my husband awake and I'm
Speaker:like, something is seriously wrong.
Speaker:We went to the ER where
Speaker:feel compelled to share this.
Speaker:They're like, oh, you're a woman in
Speaker:your 30s. Do you ever do yoga?
Speaker:Yes. Well, okay,
Speaker:there is a chance that you might
Speaker:have torn your jugular.
Speaker:Let's do it. And I'm like, Oh my
Speaker:God, this is terrifying.
Speaker:It turned out to just be a pinched
Speaker:nerve, which is excruciating.
Speaker:But it was a wake up call where all
Speaker:of a sudden I prioritized physical
Speaker:therapy. And this was like I
Speaker:have to go to PT three,
Speaker:four days a week because I don't
Speaker:want this pain to come back.
Speaker:And I'm not proud to say this, but
Speaker:that was a little bit of a wake-up
Speaker:call to me, like, wow, it took
Speaker:this for me to start to prioritize
Speaker:my health a little but each day.
Speaker:And I was able to use that one
Speaker:step to kind of snowball into
Speaker:where are other areas where I'm kind
Speaker:of not taking care of myself, not
Speaker:having some balance.
Speaker:And that created just enough
Speaker:of a disruption.
Speaker:In my habits to start
Speaker:to gain this new perspective to
Speaker:say, well, wait a minute, I am
Speaker:sprinting. Look up what is the end.
Speaker:I have to. I am not a runner.
Speaker:I guess I'm just good at using the
Speaker:running metaphors, but full
Speaker:disclosure, I'm not a runners.
Speaker:So don't take it. Don't ask me
Speaker:running questions, but to kind of
Speaker:look up and say, oh, I've been on
Speaker:this course. Oh, this is a similar
Speaker:problem. Oh this is actually like
Speaker:a flatter learning curve that
Speaker:I want to be on and so.
Speaker:That's what kind of started the
Speaker:thinking, started some conversations
Speaker:with those closest
Speaker:to me. And then Brandon, to answer
Speaker:your question, the way
Speaker:I approached it, it was advice from
Speaker:a trusted friend, and she's
Speaker:like, think of the people in your
Speaker:life kind of in these
Speaker:trusted circles of the People
Speaker:you can go to first with really
Speaker:messy thinking.
Speaker:And then there's that next tranche
Speaker:of people where they do
Speaker:better if you come to them and say,
Speaker:I'm thinking of.
Speaker:Making a change.
Speaker:Here's idea one, idea two, idea
Speaker:three, what might I not
Speaker:be thinking of?
Speaker:And then I think we all have people
Speaker:in our network, one click out
Speaker:who are better for hey, I have
Speaker:a very targeted idea.
Speaker:Do you know someone in this
Speaker:industry?
Speaker:So I started with those who were
Speaker:closest to me, friends,
Speaker:family, trusted.
Speaker:Mentors, I like to call them like my
Speaker:personal board of directors, but
Speaker:people who I could go to and say,
Speaker:Hey, you've seen me over my career,
Speaker:you see what I'm good at what I've
Speaker:not so good at.
Speaker:If you could drop me
Speaker:into doing anything, like where
Speaker:would you want to see me go?
Speaker:Where do you think my
Speaker:talents could be really
Speaker:applicable where that I haven't even
Speaker:explored before.
Speaker:And although we're really focusing
Speaker:on the journey today, I just really
Speaker:like where have you ended up and
Speaker:then maybe we can so we have where
Speaker:you started we have some of the
Speaker:journey very curious where you
Speaker:finished and then i think we might
Speaker:go back to.
Speaker:Yeah, absolutely don't want to leave
Speaker:everyone hanging.
Speaker:So where I am today is,
Speaker:and I touched on this a little bit
Speaker:briefly, I contemplated buying a
Speaker:business.
Speaker:And I, again, putting my,
Speaker:if I was building product hat on,
Speaker:I'm like, let me go immerse myself
Speaker:into that SMB world,
Speaker:specifically here in New York, see
Speaker:what it is like, try before you
Speaker:buy. And found
Speaker:my way into...
Speaker:An opportunity to
Speaker:operate as fractional
Speaker:COO SMB, they
Speaker:often call it integrators from the
Speaker:EOS model, but
Speaker:serving as a fractional
Speaker:operator to a number of
Speaker:businesses, but really bringing
Speaker:them not just me, but more
Speaker:of a team approach.
Speaker:So they're getting some strategic
Speaker:COO with me, they're getting some
Speaker:execution support from a
Speaker:whip smart chief of staff type
Speaker:person coming out of tech.
Speaker:We bring in some admin support as
Speaker:well, but to bring that
Speaker:intensity of operations
Speaker:that I think a lot of us grew up
Speaker:with in the tech world, bringing
Speaker:that over into SMB where
Speaker:it is sorely needed
Speaker:and there's a ton of
Speaker:impact. And I could go on and on and
Speaker:talk about this, but that is where
Speaker:I'm focused today
Speaker:and I'm really bullish on
Speaker:SMB overall, especially with
Speaker:this tsunami of AI.
Speaker:Are you starting a company then?
Speaker:Cause you're talking about other
Speaker:people in your team.
Speaker:It's not just you going out and
Speaker:being a fractional, which so many
Speaker:people have either opted
Speaker:to, or had to do in the last few
Speaker:years.
Speaker:I know the answer isn't you went out
Speaker:to start a company, but at what
Speaker:point did you realize, Oh, what I'm
Speaker:doing is starting a, I'm not just
Speaker:being a fractional myself, or
Speaker:I'm looking for a new career.
Speaker:I had a couple, trust.
Speaker:People say to me,
Speaker:don't just build yourself a job,
Speaker:build something. I am a builder.
Speaker:I'm not a good maintainer.
Speaker:I networked my way into meeting a
Speaker:couple of super connectors
Speaker:and so started getting a lot
Speaker:of inbound interest from
Speaker:different owners and
Speaker:I want to help them all and I
Speaker:personally can't, and I'm someone
Speaker:that I love building a team.
Speaker:I love having a team, I know a lot
Speaker:of fractionals want to be
Speaker:solo because they're like, I never
Speaker:want to responsible for
Speaker:building a team or performance
Speaker:management or anything that goes
Speaker:along with that. I get a lot out of
Speaker:that. So once I saw the
Speaker:traction and once I
Speaker:saw that the owners
Speaker:I was pitching, they were very open
Speaker:to this team model
Speaker:versus just having a
Speaker:person.
Speaker:I said, okay, let's pull the trigger
Speaker:and evolve and see how I can scale
Speaker:this.
Speaker:That's cool. So then from an EOS
Speaker:standpoint, you go into these
Speaker:organizations and say, look, we're
Speaker:going to help you transform your
Speaker:business. This is not just me as a
Speaker:fractional, but in fact, I'm going
Speaker:to bring in a couple of different
Speaker:people custom built to solve a
Speaker:particular set of problems that you
Speaker:have.
Speaker:Correct.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So is there going to be an
Speaker:Alicia Diamond way of
Speaker:doing things? Like are you creating
Speaker:your own new playbooks
Speaker:and new methods?
Speaker:Is that part of your long-term
Speaker:vision?
Speaker:Love that question, because
Speaker:I think there is a
Speaker:part of me that
Speaker:has never admitted that maybe
Speaker:I would love to be one of those
Speaker:people that comes up with
Speaker:a new framework.
Speaker:I love, I love frameworks.
Speaker:And so maybe coming soon,
Speaker:I should trademark something in
Speaker:advance maybe what I'm finding
Speaker:quite effective now is
Speaker:most owners and
Speaker:to contextualize it for the
Speaker:for the listeners we're talking
Speaker:about at the smallest
Speaker:scale call it like three
Speaker:million in revenue up to about 50
Speaker:million in Revenue
Speaker:private so it's the
Speaker:owner as the operator
Speaker:rarely do they call themselves the
Speaker:CEO they call themselves the owner
Speaker:they have done an extraordinary
Speaker:job of scaling
Speaker:the business to where it is based on
Speaker:their passion for the product or
Speaker:service, but they are not a typical
Speaker:business person or have
Speaker:the kind of that operator bend to
Speaker:them.
Speaker:What I find is most of
Speaker:them are familiar with EOS.
Speaker:I'm sorry, Gina Wickman
Speaker:and team, but many of them allergic
Speaker:to EOS, they say,
Speaker:oh, I'm familiar, but ooh,
Speaker:accountability.
Speaker:Ooh, that sounds heavy handed.
Speaker:That's why I started my own
Speaker:business. I don't wanna be in that
Speaker:environment.
Speaker:And so what I found that resonates
Speaker:is the ability to
Speaker:take a little bit from multiple
Speaker:frameworks and customize
Speaker:it to what.
Speaker:They need.
Speaker:So they might not like
Speaker:EOS, but they do like
Speaker:this idea of delegating
Speaker:more to their team, elevating
Speaker:what they do,
Speaker:understanding proactively how their
Speaker:business is performing versus
Speaker:waiting until they get a financial
Speaker:statements.
Speaker:They like concepts of it.
Speaker:They just don't like the kind of
Speaker:rigid we're implementing
Speaker:EOS. So sometimes I pull in
Speaker:from OKRs, or sometimes
Speaker:I pull in even
Speaker:for strategic planning, like
Speaker:business model canvas, I'm able to
Speaker:pull from across my
Speaker:toolbox and have it feel
Speaker:bespoke.
Speaker:And it is to some degree, but at the
Speaker:end of the day, it's the same.
Speaker:It's the fundamentals are
Speaker:the same across all the frameworks.
Speaker:What I get stuck doing
Speaker:is one of two things,
Speaker:either fear of like, this
Speaker:is the only bus that's coming, so I
Speaker:better get on this bus and
Speaker:then get myself really distracted
Speaker:doing a project
Speaker:or something that sounds interesting
Speaker:but doesn't move me forward for the
Speaker:rest.
Speaker:That's happened like two
Speaker:career breaks ago, the most recent
Speaker:career break.
Speaker:I had more of a plan of what I
Speaker:wanted to do, but I just wanted to
Speaker:so many things.
Speaker:You know, I did pottery classes and
Speaker:writing classes and started a
Speaker:podcast and like
Speaker:ended up filling my
Speaker:time with things that I loved
Speaker:exploring but didn't necessarily
Speaker:move me in a direction.
Speaker:So my question is, how
Speaker:do you know when to say yes and how
Speaker:do you know what to say no while
Speaker:you're in that exploratory phase?
Speaker:Yeah, I think it's somewhere in
Speaker:the middle of what you're
Speaker:describing. I think there
Speaker:is an extraordinary amount of
Speaker:value in all of the things that
Speaker:you rattled off that might seem
Speaker:totally out of left field like
Speaker:the pottery class.
Speaker:Being able to tap into,
Speaker:you know, why are you taking a
Speaker:pottery class?
Speaker:Because you want to create
Speaker:something, presumably, I don't know.
Speaker:Like, you know, it's very tactile,
Speaker:it got out of my head deeply into
Speaker:my body and a totally different
Speaker:skill.
Speaker:It was quite meditative.
Speaker:So one of the things I realized,
Speaker:not from a pottery class,
Speaker:was that I
Speaker:missed quiet,
Speaker:creative space
Speaker:that my day-to-day
Speaker:had turned into
Speaker:meeting, meeting,
Speaker:meeting, chasing things down,
Speaker:facilitating,
Speaker:making impossible decisions that
Speaker:found their way to the top and
Speaker:I missed that
Speaker:sense of accomplishment,
Speaker:frankly, that comes from sitting
Speaker:down and creating something.
Speaker:So much so, I'm one of those people
Speaker:where sometimes I'm like, I'll take
Speaker:a first crack at building the
Speaker:financial model because it's just
Speaker:discrete and
Speaker:fun.
Speaker:You're speaking to Bethany's heart
Speaker:here.
Speaker:Yeah, I just, you know,
Speaker:I save the Excel as my
Speaker:dessert.
Speaker:Love that.
Speaker:It makes other people so people are
Speaker:like, Excel is my vegetables.
Speaker:I'm like, no, Excel, is my dessert.
Speaker:So I think there is wisdom
Speaker:in everything.
Speaker:And I cannot take credit for
Speaker:this myself very fortuitously.
Speaker:If folks are familiar with this
Speaker:book,
Speaker:the Silicon Valley
Speaker:companies have their leadership
Speaker:teams read it and organize
Speaker:around it.
Speaker:And I was fortunate to be able to
Speaker:join a Conscious Leadership
Speaker:Forum, which is a small group of
Speaker:people, there are eight or 10 of us,
Speaker:and we meet once a month for
Speaker:an entire year and
Speaker:really internalize those
Speaker:commitments.
Speaker:And, and what that process is
Speaker:all about is really integrating
Speaker:and waking up and
Speaker:Discovering being aware
Speaker:of your experience.
Speaker:You're doing something and you're
Speaker:not even aware that you dislike it
Speaker:or it's draining or
Speaker:just being a little bit more
Speaker:impeccable in terms of how you're
Speaker:showing up as a human being, being
Speaker:honest, going
Speaker:in and having a clearing
Speaker:conversation with someone rather
Speaker:than letting emotions fester.
Speaker:And so I think what you're hearing
Speaker:in me is a lot of my journey
Speaker:since I left my full-time
Speaker:role.
Speaker:Is this integration and
Speaker:self-development as well.
Speaker:And so I viewed everything
Speaker:as wisdom. And there were
Speaker:lots of, at the beginning of my
Speaker:break, I was not as productive
Speaker:as you, Bethany.
Speaker:There were lots walks,
Speaker:lots of—I did have my hot
Speaker:girl summer—but lots of time
Speaker:outside, lots of times with
Speaker:friends, and then
Speaker:just pursuing these
Speaker:conversations and opportunities.
Speaker:As they popped up and
Speaker:being okay with trying
Speaker:that just because I said yes
Speaker:to this one opportunity and I got
Speaker:into the project and I'm like oh
Speaker:gosh I don't want to do this that's
Speaker:okay I'm better for it I learned
Speaker:from it I made a contact I have a
Speaker:little case study about
Speaker:my ability to do this
Speaker:but to not get stuck and
Speaker:that version one is my version
Speaker:forever it's just it's just version
Speaker:one and learn and pivot into
Speaker:version two.
Speaker:I definitely have that as well,
Speaker:like permission to say no as much as
Speaker:permission to say yes, or you say
Speaker:yes and then you go, Oh, change
Speaker:my mind. That wasn't as much fun as
Speaker:I thought. And that's okay.
Speaker:You don't have to always stick with
Speaker:it. Stick with it when even if
Speaker:it's horrible, there's something in
Speaker:you that wants you to do it, don't
Speaker:stick with that because you're
Speaker:afraid of failure.
Speaker:It's really hard to get into this
Speaker:abundance mindset that
Speaker:there is infinite
Speaker:opportunity and to not
Speaker:have this scarcity mindset gripping
Speaker:on to whatever's
Speaker:in front of me, I have to do it, I
Speaker:have hold on to it, and
Speaker:that requires this
Speaker:leap of faith.
Speaker:It's very much a mental and
Speaker:emotional shift, but I think as
Speaker:you're designing your career,
Speaker:It is not just your career.
Speaker:Most of us wrap up our identity
Speaker:in our careers.
Speaker:So to the extent folks are
Speaker:considering making some
Speaker:kind of pivot, just be prepared that
Speaker:this is an emotional
Speaker:spiritual journey as well.
Speaker:And if you try to ignore that, it
Speaker:will get louder and louder and
Speaker:outer, but to approach it
Speaker:in a very integrated.
Speaker:So much of what you say
Speaker:resonates with my experience,
Speaker:definitely around abundance versus
Speaker:scarcity in the mindset,
Speaker:and also privilege and
Speaker:the ability to be in a situation
Speaker:where we can explore.
Speaker:But it's
Speaker:just hard right now.
Speaker:There's not the money swashing
Speaker:around that there used to be.
Speaker:The economy isn't as good.
Speaker:People who maybe aren't ready for
Speaker:these emotional journeys
Speaker:and just want a job.
Speaker:But are struggling to find a job,
Speaker:or feel like all
Speaker:I need to do is there's abundance,
Speaker:so I'm just gonna talk to people,
Speaker:but then it doesn't work.
Speaker:What do you say to
Speaker:those who are listening that's maybe
Speaker:had more of this experience of like,
Speaker:where's all this abundance you're
Speaker:talking about? I don't see any of
Speaker:it. I need pay my school fees.
Speaker:Need a job.
Speaker:Yeah, so I was fortunate
Speaker:working at Long Term Stock Exchange.
Speaker:It was founded by Eric Rees, who
Speaker:wrote The Lean Startup.
Speaker:So my time there very formative
Speaker:and getting me to think about what
Speaker:is the hypothesis?
Speaker:What are we testing?
Speaker:What is the data telling us in
Speaker:terms of how to proceed?
Speaker:So I think for my advice for
Speaker:anyone out there where maybe they
Speaker:are just having conversations.
Speaker:If no opportunities are being
Speaker:created from that, if you're
Speaker:going into a conversation saying,
Speaker:I am a out of work
Speaker:COO and I'm going into this
Speaker:conversation and I am positioning
Speaker:myself as that,
Speaker:and opportunities for anything,
Speaker:even just project work, or let me
Speaker:introduce you to someone,
Speaker:or look up this company, it
Speaker:might resonate.
Speaker:You have to be honest with yourself.
Speaker:Like, okay, something about your,
Speaker:how you're showing up or your pitch
Speaker:or your value proposition is not
Speaker:resonating.
Speaker:And you have to open to continually
Speaker:iterating on how you
Speaker:are showing up in the world.
Speaker:And I think I benefited
Speaker:from dropping into
Speaker:this totally different
Speaker:world. It's still business,
Speaker:but dropping in and talking with
Speaker:SMB owners,
Speaker:you can't use the acronyms.
Speaker:They don't care.
Speaker:They don't know who a 16 Z is.
Speaker:They don't care that I worked in
Speaker:a company that they're like, okay,
Speaker:whatever. If anything, they're
Speaker:actually turned off by some of that.
Speaker:And it was a really valuable
Speaker:opportunity for me to
Speaker:hone how I talk about my
Speaker:skill sets, which I believe as
Speaker:operators, our skill sets are
Speaker:universally applicable.
Speaker:So if I were
Speaker:looking for
Speaker:full-time job right now.
Speaker:First of all, I would probably
Speaker:reframe it and say I'm looking for
Speaker:work. I think we're in this golden
Speaker:age of fractional right
Speaker:now, which is just a rebrand of
Speaker:consulting.
Speaker:But there's a lot of talent
Speaker:available.
Speaker:Companies post-COVID
Speaker:hiring sprees are open
Speaker:to this because it's a heck of a lot
Speaker:easier to get
Speaker:rid of a fractional than to say you
Speaker:have to do a layoff.
Speaker:And so I would reframe from it has
Speaker:to be full-time to I have to find
Speaker:work.
Speaker:And I would also broaden the
Speaker:aperture in terms of it doesn't
Speaker:have to be this specific title.
Speaker:Here is the impact I want
Speaker:to make on a company.
Speaker:So as a COO, I'm obsessed with
Speaker:margin.
Speaker:I'm obsessed with building
Speaker:the scalable operations that
Speaker:allow as revenue keeps growing
Speaker:to keep more and more of that
Speaker:because you're improving your margin
Speaker:along the way.
Speaker:As you mentioned at the beginning,
Speaker:Bethany, what if we build a
Speaker:hundred million dollar company with
Speaker:50 people?
Speaker:I love that as
Speaker:a thought exercise in terms of how
Speaker:to build the company.
Speaker:So I think getting crystal clear on
Speaker:the type of impact you want to make
Speaker:because that's what will resonate
Speaker:with.
Speaker:Whoever you're approaching for
Speaker:work. But that requires a level of
Speaker:self-reflection and humility
Speaker:and getting clear about what impact
Speaker:you can make and then
Speaker:going, having the conversation,
Speaker:having someone you admire, they
Speaker:might look at you and say, what are
Speaker:you talking about?
Speaker:That doesn't make any sense, but you
Speaker:learn from that conversation and you
Speaker:go onto the next one, onto the one.
Speaker:And I often remind myself, there are
Speaker:what, eight billion people on
Speaker:this planet.
Speaker:I can afford to have
Speaker:10 or 20 awkward
Speaker:conversations that I'm kind of
Speaker:mumbling my way through in service
Speaker:of finding something that resonates.
Speaker:It's interesting.
Speaker:I have a friend of mine,
Speaker:it's not in the operations field,
Speaker:but in the talent sphere.
Speaker:So, a phenomenal guy, very talented.
Speaker:He's had three years of consistent
Speaker:layoffs, contracting for three or
Speaker:four months, you know, another job,
Speaker:another layoff.
Speaker:And throughout that entire time
Speaker:period, which lasted almost three
Speaker:years, you definitely had a lot of
Speaker:low points.
Speaker:And I did my best to
Speaker:shift his mindset, you don't think
Speaker:about how to optimize his pitch,
Speaker:things to think about in terms of
Speaker:the way to look for work.
Speaker:Do you have any words of wisdom in
Speaker:this space?
Speaker:I vividly remember during that
Speaker:job search, I just kept having to
Speaker:remind myself like, it is
Speaker:a numbers game.
Speaker:And the more
Speaker:people you talk
Speaker:to and the more
Speaker:sports analogy, like at bats
Speaker:that you have, right?
Speaker:As long as you are
Speaker:serious about
Speaker:receiving the feedback and
Speaker:constantly improving, like doing
Speaker:your own little retro after each
Speaker:conversation.
Speaker:It is a numbers game, so just
Speaker:keep going.
Speaker:I think also candidly the world has
Speaker:changed dramatically since
Speaker:the last time I was looking for a
Speaker:full-time job. So you look at roles
Speaker:on LinkedIn today and they like
Speaker:stop accepting applications within
Speaker:the first couple of hours because
Speaker:they're getting inundated.
Speaker:I would really
Speaker:creative and if you're not feeling
Speaker:creative, this is what our
Speaker:favorite chat GPT
Speaker:colleagues are for.
Speaker:And find a way to
Speaker:stand out.
Speaker:And the way I've always done that is
Speaker:I find businesses that I think are
Speaker:really interesting.
Speaker:I find the email address for the
Speaker:CEO or the owner and I say, hey, I
Speaker:think what you're doing is really
Speaker:interesting, I say what
Speaker:is actually interesting to me,
Speaker:here's my background, here's what I
Speaker:like to do, if I can ever be
Speaker:helpful, reach out.
Speaker:But putting yourself out there in a
Speaker:differentiated way, don't
Speaker:just keep doing the same thing, it
Speaker:will yield the same result.
Speaker:Delicious
Speaker:If our listeners can only take
Speaker:one thing away from today's
Speaker:episode, what is it?
Speaker:Approach building your
Speaker:career as
Speaker:a smart product
Speaker:person.
Speaker:Define hypotheses,
Speaker:test them, listen to
Speaker:the data, and
Speaker:be comfortable following the
Speaker:data. If product doesn't rise, be
Speaker:a scientist.
Speaker:Just be rigorous in terms of
Speaker:experimenting and paying
Speaker:attention to the date that comes
Speaker:back to you.
Speaker:I'm gonna add one more piece of
Speaker:advice, which is don't take it
Speaker:personally. Look at yourself as a
Speaker:product.
Speaker:Nice. On that note, thank
Speaker:you Alicia Diamond for joining us on
Speaker:the Operations Room.
Speaker:If you like what you hear, please
Speaker:comment or subscribe and we will see
Speaker:you next week.
